Lore talk:Hammerfell

Useless stuff you might wanna know

Did you know that Hammerfell is a city at the upper-top of norway. 99.185.54.172 21:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

You're confused with the settlement of Hammerfest. --Timenn-<talk> 14:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Is the head of state really the crowns?

I do not believe the Head of State for Hammerfell should be the Crowns for the following reasons

1. The crowns are a faction/class within Redguard society who follow traditional, anti-imperialist ways and fought against Tiber Septim and rebelled after his victory. It is hard to believe that the Emperor and Elder Council would bestow the rank of leaders of the province to these people.

2. The Pocket Guide to the Empire (3rd edition) states that there are various kingdoms within Hammerfell. This feudalism divides the crowns and forebears alike (Lhoton of Sentinel cannot be king of hammerfell as he is opposed by most other kingdoms). Therefore there is no one ruler of Hammerfell (other than the Emperor) and there is no evidence of a high king (Like in Skyrim)

3. As point 1 states, the crowns are a faction/class in Redguard society. While it is possible that they could be the ruling faction/class, they cannot be the head of state (that is one individual person).

I have not read any of the elder scrolls novels and accept that it is possible the crowns became the ruling faction/class during the chaos of the early 4th era by suppressing the other factions/classes. If anyone has any information that contradicts what I have stated here, please share it. If not, may I please change the information on this page to be more accurate with what I have stated here? Right-Hand-Of-Sithis 09:30, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

I've removed it from the infobox. I know what it was trying to say - that the head of state is traditionally drawn from the Crowns, but to say that the head of state is the Crowns is wrong. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:35, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

The Dwemer of Hammerfell

The article claims that we don't know what happened to the Dwemer, but it's actually completely unrelated to the incident at Red Mountain. Text found on Redguard History on the Daggerfall Preview CD claims that, "Hammerfell was first occupied by Dwarves. They were a sparse population with just a few riches filled cities. Over night (from another dimension) a new breed of goblins invades - a huge army of fighters appears in the middle of the province, and pillages, raises towns to the ground and drives the surviving Dwarves out. The Dwarves flee through a lone surviving port city and are gone by the time the Redguards cross the ocean." -Summary of Hero Divad -Terminus Zaire, 14:00 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Ephesus

This article takes for granted ESO's placement of the border between HF and HR, but in all other sources, the border has been taken to be along the Bjulsae. I propose that this be acknowledged in the article, if there is no objection. — Unsigned comment by 218.185.237.158 (talk) at 09:02 on 23 April 2019 (UTC)

You can add it directly yourself, if you add the references. —MortenOSlash (talk) 20:59, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Mournoth and Ephesus

The province of Mournoth and Ephesus are considered parts of Hammerfell in Daggerfall even tho provinces of the same name are part of High Rock in ESO and Mournoth was lost to Orsinium during the Warp in the West. I think they should be mentionned in the geography section. Bengamey 974 (talk) 17:17, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

If there is lore sources backing this up, I would for sure add this stuff in. As like articles do need updating a lot of them with informantion they may not have. So if there is sources for it then it should be added in.TheVampKnight (talk) 18:19, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

The Bjoulsae River which is located north of the Mournoth area appears to form the border between Hammerfell to the south and High Rock to the north on several maps:

- File:RG-map-West Tamriel-1024x768.png

- File:LO-map-High_Rock_(Morrowind_Codex).png

- File:LO-map-High Rock (PGE1).jpg

- File:LO-map-Hammerfell (PGE1).jpg

Though Evermore, wich is in High Rock appears to be south of the river in 2E582 in ESO and the border is located further south at the Bangkorai pass. Also part of Mournoth are located north of the river in ESO. see this map : File:ON-map-Mournoth.jpg

Ephesus in ESO appears not in the middle of the Dragontail mountains like in Daggerfall but between Mournoth and the Bangkorai pass (so entirely north of the mountains).

Mournoth beeing attached to Orsinium after the Warp in the West appears in the book Lore:The Warp in the West and every land to the west of it (that would mean Ephesus is included) beeing attached to the kingdom of Sentinel.

Bengamey 974 (talk) 15:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Notable Places

I have placed a cleanup tag on this section. It is currently overlong and poorly formatted, with missing summary info for most locations.

For examples of good Notable Places sections, see: Shivering Isles, Cyrodiil, The Reach.

I realise we are trying to influence the lore accuracy of TES6 by ensuring the Hammerfell page is as informative as possible, but I can't see how locations like Aldunz or Chasetown are at all relevant at a province level. We have list pages like Lore:Dwemer Ruins and Lore:Places for this purpose. Perhaps a better solution is to move the bulk of these to a new Lore:Hammerfell Places list page which can be linked to at the top of the section? —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:41, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Geography section

The Geography section of the article mix contradicting description as seen in ESO on one side and Daggerfall on the other side.

What about doing two columns, on the point the games are in contradiction, like the Lore:Tiber Septim article do to compare the orthodoxy to the Arcturian heresy. (The main point of contradiction are the location of Lainlyn, Totambu, Kozanset and Satakalaam)

The section also transcludes the articles from the various regions from DF bringing info such as festivities and main vampire clan that may not be relevant in the article about the whole province of Hammerfell.

Repeating that the regions belongs to Sentinel after the Warp in the West for every region is a bit repetitive. The ony Hammerfell region in DF that was not absorbed by Sentinel is Mournoth. Maybe the list of regions absorbed by Sentinel could be put in a single place.

Finally some of the regions listed in that section overlap. Maybe that could be indicated for clarity Bengamey 974 (talk) 12:48, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Like the thing is, the way it kind of works, is that ESO, and like Daggerfall regions, are not going to one hundred percent match up to everything we know, given the large time gap between ESO and Daggerfall and also the effects of the wap in the west did chage some things. But there does need to be a lot of like content like, added in lore, from ESO/Daggerfall added in, more lore that we know, Hammerfell really needs to be a focus of article attentions, otherwise Bethesda devs who are making the next game might mess something up. But inconstiancies can also be do to the fact when eso was made, Uesp was not like how it is now with how everything is doccumented, we still are missing so much even still that needs to be added in. Like it could be cleaned up, but like yeah there needs to be like a push to do add in as much redguard lore as possible, as well as doing stuff related to their pages. Do what you think needs to be done, I might contact an editor that did recent work on the Glenumbra page, to see if they can work on this stuff as well. They did impressive work with reorganizing that page.Edit i see the page did get some love, last year but still, like anything that be done everything, I think is worth it. If it helps the next game align with already existing lore. I would just like do what you think is best in that regard.TheVampKnight (talk) 22:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Republic, kingdom or both?

Genuine question: Is Hammerfell considered both a republic and kingdom? In Redguard Nidal says "That the Forebears were the pretenders to the throne, that they betrayed the republic, and that Hammerfell has been cursed by their cowardice." He says this after Thassad II's death, who of course was the High King of Hammerfell. But Nidal says the Forebears betrayed the "republic" he of course doesn't say "kingdom." I'm a bit confused you see a republic is a state where power rests with the people and their elected representatives, while a monarchy is governed by a single person, a king or queen, who inherits the position. So is there a more accurate term that acknowledges both? There is the Kingdom of Hammerfell not the Republic of Hammerfell Is Nidal's use of the term "republic" an oversight? Wouldn't the correct term be "country"? --KevinM^(talk) 01:07, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Here is a source explicitly referring to Hammerfell as a republic. However, just referring to it as a republic is not the best solution, as Hammerfell's regional politics appear to mostly be about a power struggle between the republican-Forebears and monarchist-Crowns. With the Forebears establishing a republic while in power, and the Crowns a monarchy. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 01:33, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The source above justifies that the opening of this article should be changed to "Hammerfell, once known as Hegathe, the Deathland (or Deathlands), and Volenfell, is a province" and not have it be called anything else in the opening sentence. --KevinM^(talk) 01:43, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

What I will say is that it is odd to put "province and republic" in the opening sentence, it shouldn't be worded like that. That being said, Hammerfell's status as a republic at any point cannot just be removed from the page entirely. It's best we clarify the republic-kingdom issue somewhere at the end of the opening paragraphs. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I see your point but where would we fit the republic-kingdom issue below? I also would like to point out that the very last sentence below might make readers think its still part of the empire too when its not.

"Hammerfell, once known as Hegathe, the Deathland (or Deathlands), and Volenfell, is a province in the west of Tamriel, bordering Skyrim, Cyrodiil, and High Rock. This province is made up of beaches, jungles, grasslands, mountains, with the northwest corner taken up by the Alik'r desert. It is inhabited by the human race of Redguards, who fled to Tamriel after their home, Yokuda, was partly sunken.

Hammerfell is predominately an urban and maritime province, with most of its population confined to the great port and trade cities. The interior is sparsely populated with small poor farms and beastherds. The Redguards' love of travel, adventure, and the high seas have dispersed them as sailors, mercenaries, and adventurers in ports of call throughout the Empire."

Any ideas? oh and in the Tamriel lore article in the government section, should Kingdom of Hammerfell be removed since the kingdom's current status is unknown? --KevinM^(talk) 13:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)